One Arab World

1 - Do you really beleive he is dead?.The whole world are being informed by a single source of news, that is a great deception machine called western mainstream media. (Comment this)

2 - you are absolutly right. The western establishment elite manufacture the news and world events in general to advance their own agendas and to protect and increase their intrests in the world. The majority of people on earth are being lied to and exploited in various ways by the very leadership that they believe will protect them or bring democracy. most people are good and simply want to live their lives in peace and prosperity.

but the rich and powerful take complete advantage of THE WHOLE SYSTEM so if they do not victomize you DIRECTLY you may not get it.

zarqawi may be dead, he may not be dead, hell.... his whole identity may be a creation of the U.S. war machine.
who knows! or he may have been real and been a CIA opperative like Ossama Bin Laden.

Dont think that they dont infiltrate every society in order to moniter and infact stear the general masses in any certain direction they choose.

but even if he was a real islamic freedom fighter and we saw him at full face value, the establishment STILL fully utilized and profited greatly from his image, and inturn were able to justify a modren colonization of (eventually the whole) middle east under the pretext of liberization,

and were able to strike fear into the hearts of the american peolpe so that they could close their grip around the nations freedoms a little tighter

i.e.

-the patriot act
-the department of homeland security
-the monitering of civilial phone conversations without federal warrent


this is a dictatorship people, and we have to leave our mark on history as a people that bucked our oppressors and established our own citizen government FOR THE PEOPLE. not a government for the power establishment. (Comment this)

3 - "zarqawi may be dead, he may not be dead, hell.... his whole identity may be a creation of the U.S. war machine."

Yes, and the Golden Mosque might still stand. And the Iraqis are angry non-existing terrorists (sorry: "freedom fighters") after seeing them kill and threaten Iraqis.

Alternatively you could travel to Iraq and check the location of the former mosque. Perhaps it is true? (Comment this)

4 - you have chosen to respond to one small exerpt (take out of the context of the disscusion started by "topo" regarding the fact that we all recieve our "news" from one single source) and you have basicaly tryed to explaine to me (in an agressive tone) that the atrocitys are happening and i should go see for myself.

you fail to notice that the government spin doctors are COUNTING on the fact that NO ONE can or will go "see it for themselves" so they can spoon feed you any story, and if enough people believe it, they will start to defend the lie and it will take on a life of its own.

Where are the unbiased journalists who are reporting what is really going on? well, the answer is quite simple. you cannot get even remotely close to any type of news worthy activity without proper authorization and screening. they hand pick the reporters!

how about alternative voices and opinions in america? why are they shut down or silenced so well? How about seriouse and valid questions to the 911 story? Or the investigations into bush and cheny ties to big oil companies in bagdad right this friggin second making record profits? BUSH GAINED IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE!!!

in short, you attempted to belittle me when i simply observed that i don't know what to believe from the media. also, you really took away from the topic at hand, the governments centralized control of the media, as suggested by "topo" and responded to by me.

As my old economics teacher would say "could you pleasr pay attention and stay on topic!"

And as my KINDERGARDEN teacher would say "learn to play nice!" (Comment this)

5 - "Where are the unbiased journalists who are reporting what is really going on?"

www.michaeltotten.com? (Comment this)

6 - LITERALY

all he said that he was going to be interviewed on the zarqawi issue, then he mentions someone who doubts that zarqawi ever existed, then he said that he didn't believe that zarqawi existed like he knows nebraska exists but if you were ever in "the red zone" you would know he was real.

what kind of bull shit reporting is that? i mean im taking him on face value that he ever was in iraq. and even so, he dosent answer anything.

how about ALEX JONES who is currently struggling just to bring attention to some serious questions and illegal actions by the U.S. government and powerful elite. Why are they hiding from him and belittleing him?

what are they afraid of?

what are you afraid of?

being a zionist (you don't have to admit it here, only in your black heart) you and your people almost exclusively gain from all of washingtons lying and warmongering

while most of humanity suffers. (Comment this)

7 - "while most of humanity suffers."

And humanity will continue to suffer until Muslim terrorists stop killing people.

Jews, Kurds, other Arabs, all of them are victims of your fanaticism.

Israel has to exist because Jews could not live in an Arab country. That should be an Arab problem, not the world's.

No Jew blows up a synagogue to protest anything. No Jew blows up a mosque to protest anything either. Your Muslim terrorists will happily do both.

IMO these people are not Muslims.

Why do you think that you are? (Comment this)

8 - "what are you afraid of?"

People like you.

In contrast to your rethoric about how the Jews are the aggressive side while Muslims are so peaceful, your occasional angry outbursts prove the truth: it's the other way around.

I have to fear you and your allies. But you do not have to fear me and mine.


"what kind of bull shit reporting is that?"

You have to _keep reading_. He has many articles about Iraq, Israel, and Lebanon. Using your method of investigation you will never found out anything, which is presumably why you know so little about Jews and Israel (and the Qur'an). (Comment this)

9 - You will no doubt notice that human suffering is the greatest in countries run by Islamists, and that it is smallest in countries run by governments you call evil.

Fewer Muslims die in Palestine than in Sudan, in Iraq under Saddam, or in Iran.

More Muslims die because of other (so-called) Muslims than because of Americans or Jews.

If you want to stop human suffering, you will have to find a better solution than to simply get rid of the Jews. That didn't work in Europe either.

Turns out the suffering was not caused by the Jews, but by those who deported and killed them. (Comment this)

10 - first of all, if you are saying that:
"Turns out the suffering was not caused by the Jews, but by those who deported and killed them."

you must first PROVE that jews were killed exclusivly (meaning that they were specificaly targeted and no other groups were victomized) and you have yet to provide PROOF that jews were exterminated. good luck

as for my method of investigating, you put up the link.....i went to it.....and made a comment on that specific link. i never claimed to know this mans body of work, but that paragraph of his was pretty weak.

now, i have a question for you. if you had an infection under your skin, and it developed puss, would you treat the infection or just squeeze out the puss? Granted, puss is nasty and nobody likes it, but as long as there is an infection or some type of irritant, the puss will always redevelope. you must treat the cause not the effect.

you said that no jew would blow anything up to prove a point. im not sure how your fingers would alow themselves to type such an outrageous lie. your talking about the apartheid racist police state that subjugates its second class citizens daily and abuse has literaly become a way of life for them. why do you always leave that out? with their jack boots and ak47s, and the air of superiority that is present at every checkpoint.

Oh, and all of you out there in america, you should go to israel. not to see the poor palestinians,oh no. so that you can see how your children and grand children will be living under the police state that will be established after the next big attack. after the established powers in the U.S. carry out their next scare tactic they WILL carry out marshal law. It will be for your own "protection". And israel is the training ground of the prison state.

and i tend to agree that those who commit terrorist acts are NOT muslims, either that or they are not very smart.

because they are playing into the hands of those who stand to gain more from their efforts than they will!!!

they are most likely cia operatives in puppet organizations carrying out staged attacks.

either that, or they are idiots who think that they can BLAST their way to victory. which is a method that is proven bankrupt.


as i have repeated SEVERAL times on this blog (but have yet to be understood) i do not support terrorism. I do support armed resistance. and i would like the word terrorist to be looked at more seriously and defined, because to us they are the "big bad terrorist guys in the caves" but to most of the world, the united states is "the terrorist MACHINE" who will destroy all in her path.

we will never see eye to eye.

you will never in a million years be able to prove that the poor jews were so poor and destitute that they had no where to go. our that they were as good as extinct in europe after WWII. The world has PLENTY of refugees, but no one cares about them, we only care about the poor jews
(wimper wimper sniff, im crying) let me play a violin for the poor wayward jew (or mabey a fiddle on my roof)

why in the hell don't you see people going to such extents for other races of people? if you want to know why i burst from time to time, its because the truth is so transparent, but lies are always clouded. i get mad because i don't know why people believe the lies, and even defend them when the truth is right in their faces. the path to the truth is straight but lies tend to twist and turn and go of onto SIDE ISSUES (ahhhemmm, Mr. Brehm) and im not into that. (Comment this)

11 - why are you running away from the issue of the jewish run, state owned, completely bogus media establishment?

With its cool graphics, and 24 hour fear mongers. Or the attention payed to "beniffer" and the jackson case, and angelina jolie giving birth in africa for gods sake! there are too many important issues in the world for us to care about those spoiled idiotic CELEBRITIES. that is what america cares about.

that is what we started talking about and i would like to see you say that we have real, honest, and fair media that brings us staright, unfiltered knowledge for us to understand for ourselves. tell me that they do not tell you something, and how to understand it and what to think about it. like a kitten, always being petted. (Comment this)

12 - "why are you running away from the issue of the jewish run, state owned, completely bogus media establishment?"

I take it disagreement with your analysis of the situation will not be accepted as a valid reason to ignore your "point"?


"tell me that they do not tell you something, and how to understand it and what to think about it. like a kitten, always being petted."

You are absolutely right about the bogus. But the media are rarely Jewish run or state owned. (Comment this)

13 - i like to find some common ground. i am glad that you agree that the american people are being told what and how to think about the events of the world.

but you seem to believe that this coaching and guiding is being done by the media alone, by itself, and those who stand to gain the most from this manipulation (government establishment, wealthy elite, and ZIONIST ISRAEL) have nothing to do with it.

its just really lucky for them that the media is confusing people with sagas and episodes from the bizzare lives of celebritys, or that the right wing cheerleaders are on 24 HOURS A DAY!!!!! with slick graphics and ominous slogans, all they need is sigmond freuid waving a pocket watch in the screen every half hour telling you "your getting sleepy......very sleepy" (Comment this)

14 - "but you seem to believe that this coaching and guiding is being done by the media alone, by itself, and those who stand to gain the most from this manipulation (government establishment, wealthy elite, and ZIONIST ISRAEL) have nothing to do with it."

If you want to make the case that ZIONIST ISRAEL is behind this and you want to tell me that by referring to "Jewish controlled media", you better go and FIND such Jewish controlled media, because otherwise I won't believe you.

Quite in contrast it is my experience that the media will happily report any anti-Israel "news" they can find, and any anti-American propaganda as well.

Take the Arab Palestinian girl who lost her family to a Hamas bomb on a Gaza beach for example. The press happily reported that it was an Israeli shell which killed them, IN SPITE of the evidence (it was a crater from an explosion from below, not a shell) and IN SPITE of what even Palestinian security said.

Or take the "massacre" in Iraq. The media reported that the Americans committed a massacre. It now turns out it never happened.

If the Jews are behind that, I would love to know how that serves Israel.

As for "right-wing cheerleaders" being on 24 hours a day, I don't know who they would be. Most media people appear to vote Democratic rather than Republican.

I am now reading German news because American sources are just too anti-American! (Comment this)

15 - You are absolutely right Andrew when you said that jews never blows synagogue or mosque. I can only recall jews running massacre in shabre/shatilla, Jenin and other places .They only killed innocent civillians, women and children after every suicide bombings. Because of the so called "holocaust" ,they think the are entitled to make the same against others. (Comment this)

16 - "You are absolutely right Andrew when you said that jews never blows synagogue or mosque."

Very good.

(It's a generalisation, of course. But I think you understood it as it was meant.)


"I can only recall jews running massacre in shabre/shatilla, Jenin and other places."

Not bad. The first was committed by Christians (Maronites, to be exact), the second "massacre" never even happened.

But why not blame the Jews anyway?


"They only killed innocent civillians, women and children after every suicide bombings."

If the terrorists wouldn't hide among them, that would be more difficult to achieve, wouldn't it?


"Because of the so called "holocaust" ,they think the are entitled to make the same against others."

IOW the Shoah is a "so called holocaust", but it is OK to blame Jews for massacres committed by Christians or even to make up massacres and blame the Jews.

And people wonder why the war in Palestine doesn't end. (Comment this)

17 - "You are absolutely right Andrew when you said that jews never blows synagogue or mosque."

"Muslim" freedom fighters, on the other hand, seem to have a knack for attacking houses of worship. (Comment this)

18 - "Because of the so called "holocaust" ,they think the are entitled to make the same against others."

Let's put this another way: You believe that because you doubt the Holocaust, you can blame the Jews for any bad thing, including massacres committed by Christian Lebanese and plain phantasy events.

Reality: the Holocaust was real (but has nothing to do with the middle east, except via Arafat's uncle's Nazi connections), and so was the Arab attempt to get rid of all middle eastern Jews by throwing them into the sea.

But the "Jenin massacre" didn't happen, and neither were Palestinian Arabs subject to anything similar to the Holocaust (which is why there are so many of them in the region), at least not from the Jewish side (their Arab brethren of course did put them into camps, where I think they still live today).

Making up lies about Jews might work where you live, and even in the west, but it cannot be used as an argument in a debate with somebody who knows who Elie Hobeika was.

Nice try. (Comment this)

19 - making up lies about "fanatical" terrorist muslims might work where you live, and especialy in the west where world events get their usual dose of propaganda flavoring,but it cannot be used as an argument in a debate with somebody who knows who Muhammad Al-Durah was. (Comment this)

20 - "making up lies about "fanatical" terrorist muslims might work where you live"

Ok, I'll bite. Which "lie" did I "make up"?

I specifically listed the lies in question. What statement of mine about "fanatical terrorist Muslims" do you have an issue with?

And when did I last refer to a fanatical terrorist as a "Muslim"? I usually use the term "so-called Muslim", unless I forget.

But go on, tell me what lie I have told about "fanatical terrorist Muslims".


"it cannot be used as an argument in a debate with somebody who knows who Muhammad Al-Durah was."

And you KNOW who he was and what happened to him, as opposed to having heard a story and believing it without checking?

The Wikipedia article on the event lists a few odd points:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah#Controversy

For all I know he could have been killed by Arabs (possiblility) in a war started by Arabs (fact).

I put it to you that your "knowledge" of who he was and what happened to him is based on your anti-Semitism alone. You HEARD the story that an Israeli might have shot him and you not only BELIEVED it, but you now lie about it and claim that the belief is KNOWLEDGE.

Is that not so?

If I was like you, I would KNOW that Arabs killed him. But I am not, and I don't. (Comment this)

21 - Why do you always assume that you know what im thinking, our what I know?

I was actually mirroring what you said in your post to demonstrate how two sided the argument actually is.

If you want to go back and forth proving who is at fault in this case our that, im ready.

As for Muhammad Al-Durah, the Israeli government actually admitted fault (which is more than we can expect from you) and the offending officer was put on 6 month probation (the chair would have been my choice). And if i got my news wrong from Al-jazeera im sure you'll tell me.

I would love to see you tell his father that he was involved in his own shooting and that of his sons, or that his son deserves some kind of oscar for his famous line "Save me Baba!"

i would also love to see you stage something, anything, while in a war zone, where both sides are firing rounds.

the argument sounds so ignorant "oh yeah, they uh...set up the cameras and when i yelled action everybody opened fire on each other wishing nothing but death upon the enemy. Ofcourse the jews were practicing restraint. no question there. But the blood thirsty Arabs, They were more than willing to mow the kid down just for the practice!

Plus, it was sweeps week and we needed a good story!"

Man! i never thought of it like that!

where's my yamaka?

Are you seriouse? do you REALLY think Muhammad Al-Durrah is alive? Come on, i thought you were the wise and superior jew, you could never fall for that bolony! unless its KOSHER bolony, then its always true i guess ;)

The main point in the whole Palstinian/Israeli conflict is this. The Jewish people have an overwhelming upperhand against the Arab, and therefore have the greater responsability in the conflict. they have Federal funding to the tune of $15 billion plus per year, and most of the strategic positions, and a well maintained army and airforce. it is the literal David and Goliath situation.

It is almost as if the big bully came and took your house, and then said that you owe him a peaceful life there. The Arabs don't owe the jews a damn thing. It is the jews who owe the Arabs the very land they occupy. If they refuse to live in the country as they came to it (which was under the rule of the residents there) then chaos is the price they DESERVE to pay. they didn't even contenplate the idea of obtaining residence in the land as citizens of the former country did they? why not? wouldn't they live in the holy land? If they came in a humble manner (i know its hard for them) and if they were willing to be positive contributers to the society, they would be living better and safer now and i can guarantee that. My grandfather told me of life before Israel, he said that the jews, muslims, and christians went about their own lives and only when occasional disagreements occured was there ever a problem. As long as every one paid either the zakat or the jizziah, which ever applied to you, you were left alone to live your life. Actually, the jews were allowed to set up their own courts to try themselves according to jewish laws.

Ofcourse they would not be all powerful (thats UNACCEPTABLE! a jew is supposed to be in power!) but they would have a life and be safe. Thats all we want, to have a nice life and to be safe. They showed that they wanted more than that through their actions.
 (Comment this)

22 - Oh, one more thing. I didn't know that Ariel Sharon (general in the army and commander in the sabra and shatila slaughter) was a maronite christian! (Comment this)

23 - "Why do you always assume that you know what im thinking, our what I know?"

Who are you?


"I was actually mirroring what you said in your post to demonstrate how two sided the argument actually is."

The problem is that when you mirror an argument, it might not be true any more.

I pointed out lies about Israel and Jews, you simply claimed that I made up similar lies about "Muslim terrorists".

But you cannot back that up now, can you?



"If you want to go back and forth proving who is at fault in this case our that, im ready."

I doubt it. If you were, you would have backed up your statement instead of explaining why you made it.


"As for Muhammad Al-Durah, the Israeli government actually admitted fault"

Source?

"(which is more than we can expect from you)"

Of course. I wasn't there when it happened. I told you I had no knowledge of what really happened there. It was YOU who claimed to have knowledge, not I. Why should I admit fault?

"and the offending officer was put on 6 month probation (the chair would have been my choice). And if i got my news wrong from Al-jazeera im sure you'll tell me."

An Israeli government publication would certainly be a better source for Israel admitting fault than Al-Jazeera, don't you think?


"I would love to see you tell his father that he was involved in his own shooting and that of his sons, or that his son deserves some kind of oscar for his famous line "Save me Baba!""

I said no such thing.


"i would also love to see you stage something, anything, while in a war zone, where both sides are firing rounds."

That's odd. The Wikipedia article spoke of such AFTER the shooting, didn't it?



"Are you seriouse? do you REALLY think Muhammad Al-Durrah is alive?"

When did I say that?


"Come on, i thought you were the wise and superior jew, you could never fall for that bolony! unless its KOSHER balony, then its always true i guess ;)"

Wise and superior Jew? You cannot know much about Jews if you think that Jews believe that...

You also seem to have problems reading me. Your replies always ignore points I made and seem to be directed at a different text.

For example, in your world, I seem to have spoken of "fanatical terrorist Muslims", when in reality I have usually referred to these people as "so-called Muslims". And I seem to have said that I didn't believe that Muhammad was really dead, when in my world I am sure I have said exactly this:

"For all I know he could have been killed by Arabs (possibility) in a war started by Arabs (fact)."

But you seem to have read a different text. Perhaps all your opinions on Jews and Israel are based on reading different texts?

"The main point in the whole Palstinian/Israeli conflict is this. The Jewish people have an overwhelming upperhand against the Arab"

Yes.


"and therefore have the greater responsability in the conflict."

No.


"they have Federal funding to the tune of $15 billion plus per year,"

They didn't have it during the big wars.


"and most of the strategic positions, and a well maintained army and airforce. it is the literal David and Goliath situation."

It is indeed. One side is small and fights well, the other is big and loses.


"It is almost as if the big bully came and took your house, and then said that you owe him a peaceful life there."

The Jews didn't bully anyone in Palestine before the Arabs attacked them.

"The Arabs don't owe the jews a damn thing."

They owe them peace. And reparations.


"It is the jews who owe the Arabs the very land they occupy."

Wrong. It is Jewish land, according to history, the Qur'an, the UN, and the result of war.


"If they refuse to live in the country as they came to it (which was under the rule of the residents there) then chaos is the price they DESERVE to pay."

It was the Arabs who refused the partition plan, not the Jews. The country as it was when the Jews arrived (ignoring those who have always lived there) was a British mandate.

"they didn't even contenplate the idea of obtaining residence in the land as citizens of the former country did they? why not?"

Because the former country did not allow Jewish immigration into Palestine. But the mandate did.

"wouldn't they live in the holy land? If they came in a humble manner (i know its hard for them) and if they were willing to be positive contributers to the society, they would be living better and safer now and i can guarantee that."

They did that for a while. But the Arabs kept attacking them.


"My grandfather told me of life before Israel, he said that the jews, muslims, and christians went about their own lives and only when occasional disagreements occured was there ever a problem."

Yes, like the year when the Jewish community in Hevron vanished.


"As long as every one paid either the zakat or the jizziah, which ever applied to you, you were left alone to live your life."

Even if that was true it would have been unacceptable. Anyway, the Arabs in Palestine _didn't_ leave the Jews alone.


"Actually, the jews were allowed to set up their own courts to try themselves according to jewish laws."

Fantastic.


"Ofcourse they would not be all powerful (thats UNACCEPTABLE! a jew is supposed to be in power!) but they would have a life and be safe."

Yes, I know how "safe" a member of a minority is in an Arab country. Forget it!


"Thats all we want, to have a nice life and to be safe. They showed that they wanted more than that through their actions."

It's true. They wanted more. Most non-Arab communities in Arab countries want more. They all deserve it.


I think I will only reply to you again if you decide to address at least two issues I brought up or arguments I made.

If you EVER again make up stuff and pretend I said it, I will ignore you in future, I am sure.

Feel free to apologise for your claim that I had said that the boy Muhammad wasn't really dead. (Comment this)

24 - "Oh, one more thing. I didn't know that Ariel Sharon (general in the army and commander in the sabra and shatila slaughter) was a maronite christian!"

Ariel Sharon was Defence Minister at the time and he was nowhere near Sabra and Shatila when the massacre happened. I think he in Jerusalem.

The man you are looking for is one Elie Hobeika. I believe he died a few years ago. He also defected to the Syrians after the massacre, since that is apparently the side people who commit massacres choose for themselves.

It didn't even occur to you to check the story when I told you that it was a Maronite, did it?

You were and are so convinced that it was Sharon, that you NEVER cared to check the story. (Comment this)

25 - "If you EVER again make up stuff and pretend I said it, I will ignore you in future, I am sure.

Feel free to apologise for your claim that I had said that the boy Muhammad wasn't really dead."

How can you present a link to support your claim, and then shoot down every argument against it? i guess it WAS ridicules after all. I stand corrected, it was not you, but your bogus link that said he was seen alive and that his death was staged to be used as propaganda.

and as for the rest of your post,

"As long as every one paid either the zakat or the jizziah, which ever applied to you, you were left alone to live your life."

Even if that was true it would have been unacceptable. Anyway, the Arabs in Palestine _didn't_ leave the Jews alone.

EVEN IF THAT WAS TRUE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNACCEPTABLE.

so it would not be acceptable to pay the jizziah right? the land being a British mandate (colony) is only a side issue because the big issue is that the arabs are a people who had known no other home, and were proud of their homeland and heritage. the fact that the jews stole the land, or the British stole it FOR them, dosen't explane what the arabs did to diserve their misfortune. Do you really think (as you imply, or secretly believe) that war is like sport to the arab? don't you think people love their familys and homelands the same as you do? where is the compassion? what differentiates us from the animals?

And to say that the jews were so persecuted and oppressed that they could never have peace is some more of that kosher bolony. If the arabs wanted to, they would have had no problem eliminating judism and christinaity from palestine right after the crusades. The fact that they had rights:

"Actually, the jews were allowed to set up their own courts to try themselves according to jewish laws."

Fantastic.

really irritates you dosen't it?

and why do you insist on saying the land is granted to the jews in the quran? i gave the islamic proofs that the grace from allah (swt) is for his humble believers.

The jews and their stories were only to be understood as examples of gods power and mercy, or as examples to the last ummah of how others were arrogant or lead astray.
The quran is the holy word of Allah and is directed to the believers in the one true god and All Of His Believers. You should read it with an OPEN mind.

11:120
"And all that We relate to you of these stories of the messengers, We strengthen with them your heart. Through them there comes to you the truth as well as admonition and a reminder to those who believe."

you are demonizing people, and you are being demonized by people who were wronged too. it is a cycle of violence that is being egged on by the stronger, BIGGER opponent that holds the real power and control in the region. If you assasinate the arab leadership, or demolish houses, or uproot familys, do you expect to be obeyed? Do you expect peace?

How arrogant.

How inhumane.
 (Comment this)

26 - "I stand corrected, it was not you, but your bogus link that said he was seen alive and that his death was staged to be used as propaganda."

I assume that's the closest thing to an apology you are capable of?

Now what about your claim about Sharon?


"and why do you insist on saying the land is granted to the jews in the quran?"

Because the Qur'an says that G-d granted the land to the Jews, who would be in exile twice and then return from all countries.

In short, I insist on saying it because it's true.


"i gave the islamic proofs that the grace from allah (swt) is for his humble believers."

I don't know what "islamic proofs" are, but Jews are believers.

It's not that I believe that Muhammed was a prophet, but neither will I accept whatever you say about Islam without checking it.

And since you were even surprised to hear about Israel being mentioned in the Qur'an as a land G-d gave to the Jews, I doubt that your "islamic proofs" are really so valuable. (Comment this)

27 - "you are demonizing people, and you are being demonized
by people who were wronged too."

I only demonize those people who specifically attack women and children, who believe that suicide makes one a martyr rather than a sinner, who think that killing Jews is what G-d commands them to do, and who use the Qur'an as an excuse for such behaviour.

I believe they act against Jews, against humanity, and against Islam.

Why should I not demonize them? They demonize themselves.

As for being demonized, that is more difficult. You chose to blame Ariel Sharon, a Jew, for a massacre committed by a Maronite Christian. I don't know why you insist that it was Sharon, even after being told the name of the perpetrator (Elie Hobeika). But I believe that is something you have to work on, not I. If you demonize a Jew for something he didn't do, what can he do about it?


"If you assasinate the arab leadership, or demolish houses, or uproot familys, do you expect to be obeyed? Do you expect peace?"

Yes. That's because I have seen the Arab leadership planning attacks on Israel, I have heard of houses being used as bomb factories, and I have seen pictures of Arab children being taught to hate Jews and prepare for suicide before they are 21 years old.

I have compared the two options. And it seems like assasinating the leadership and destroying houses is more peaceful than going back to all-out war, like in the old days, before Israel occupied Judaea and Samaria and Gaza.

I am waiting for the Arab Palestinians to stop or at least vehemently opposed the terror attacks. Without that happening the only way Israel alone can reach peace is by building a wall to protect itself against these people. (Comment this)

28 - Wrote this in response to the Bishop/Pope idea, but got lost and this seemed like a fitting place for the general thrust of the statements.

In easier words, I do not think an experiment in the direction of a Pope or Bishop is a very good idea for Islam. In ancient times, the way to destroy a village or a man's name was to fill the wells of the village or of the lands of the man with sand. Then if years and years later an heir returned or a decendant visited with an urge to honor the one's destroyed by their enemies, the first thing to do was to dig the sand-out and bring life back up through the water of the well. To seek a Pope or Bishop seems a little bit like piling more sand over the well that has already been filled up--for the purpose of building a high place possibly for such a one to stand above everyone else?--why else?--but then maybe we forget about the well. It is more important, now, to dig down and excavate the depths of the traditions of Islam and bring-up the vibrating strings of rich culture that set the art and heart of Islam spinning among the stars. The best way now is to Remember. To Remember and Remember and Remember and Remember...Before this...and Before this...and Before this...and Before this...when there was nothing but what was there Before this. There are men and women who believe that that glory can be recovered with guns and horses, but it was never won with guns and horses in the first place; not really; it was won by a highly developed archery of the heart. When one of the Great Friends of God fired an arrow from their bow into the dark, it kept travelling until all we could see was the small shimmering wheel of three feathers that make a single star in Heaven. It is not our faults that men are deceived by the Liar who feeds on our frustrations and fears. It is our fault when we forget that at a certain level of spiritual maturity it is important to turn the circuitry of hunger around, becoming food, becoming teaching; not teaching the pillaging of others, or the feasting on the bones of others. There is no such thing as a Holy Canibal, but feeding our fellow human beings to death is the same as eating them ourselves. The Men of Honor in the deep past of Islam understood this; it is that simple. One slain on the field of honor was not fed to death, to the fires of disdain, but lifted in the flames of his own excellence toward Heaven, or wrapped in a blanket of regard and lowered into the arms of the guardian of His creation, or given to his people like a heap of treasure returned to the treasury. Islam in its glory has always kept the Creator, the Creature, and the Creation elevated in prayer and has Classically offered the World entry into a civilization made entirely of prayer, of words curved and curled by the marvels of the ancient pens into the vissible manes of invisible horses running hard with courage into the arms of God--not suicide Bombers! I am sory, I feel deep pitty for those boys and girls, women and men, who thought they had found truth in strapping cans of ball-bearings and Chinese powder to their slim bodies and blowing themselves up, and tremendous grief for the victims of these hideous errors. It is simply not possible to raise the suicide bomber up in the way they probably would have hoped, not without tasting human flesh in our own mouths. This is not a choice; it is the way it is. What we can do for the Victims of this Error and the Victims of the Bombs, though, is Remember who they were Before...and lift that Memory back to God...and do this work of Remembering them back to themselves again, Remembering back to Whole Creatures...Whole Creations...and Remember their Victims into Whole Beings once again...in that powerful human way that delivers the small gifts we have to offer God from our own Hearts back to God. We can Remember the original creature of God, the hour of birth, the fire of life, and the infinite Mercies of God. As a final word, I really doubt that rational debate about whether or not a certain terrorist is dead or really ever existed or what the CIA is up to is of very much use in the end. It is more important that we all write in a way that demonstrates that ancient archery of the heart. Really work at presenting to one another samples of what we hope to receive from God. That is the only real victory we can hope to gain; a work of Heart that generates for others the strong sense that there is somethng real here besides a bunch of reflexes and re-cycled ideas and re-fried lives. There really is something bigger, requiring all the bravery we can muster; but it requires exercising the heart-muslce a whole lot more--not in mere sentimentality but like a bucket thrown down the well of our humanity with a rope tied to our belt--we have to pull the bucket up, filled with something fresh that the others of us can raise to our own lips in grattitude.

Jonathan (Comment this)

29 - If he is a terror what could we call Bush and his war mongers jews and new cons? (Comment this)

30 - On 2006/06/14 - 01:26:10, at http://onearabworld.blog.com/798403/#15, Topo wrote:

"You are absolutely right Andrew when you said that jews never blows synagogue or mosque. I can only recall jews running massacre in shabre/shatilla, Jenin and other places .They only killed innocent civillians, women and children after every suicide bombings. Because of the so called "holocaust" ,they think the are entitled to make the same against others."

Who says those so-called 'civilians' are innocent? I question your defintion of 'civilian' especially as there are experts in international law who tell us that whenever a pro-Islamist newspaper uses the words 'civilians' and/or 'civilian casualties' we should not take them as truth.

Those are NOT 'civilians' but rather terrorist colloborators - in fact soldiers! Why? Well, because they act as human shields to protect terrorist groups, such as Hezbullah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, and hordes of other terrorist groups. Of course, a dishonest media/press, such as a pro-Islamist one will naturally try to use propaganda to discredit Israel, America, Russia and those fighting Islamic army.

True civilians will not act as shields for an Islamic terrorist but report these criminals to the nearest police station.

I ask you to answer these questions:

1. Is Russia killing 'civilians' in Chechnya?
2. Is Israel killing 'civilians' in Palestine?
3. Is Israel killing 'civilians during its recent war with Hezbullah?
4. Is America killing 'civilians' during its recent wars in Afganistan and Iraq?

I will answer 'NO' to all four questions since some of those Chechens/Palestinians **PRETEND** to be civilians but colloborate with the Islamic terrorists and when they get killed (which is their own fault as they deliberately act as human shields to protect the terrorists) these Islamist-leaning newspapers (such as Reuters) will list them as civilian casualties and blame Israel/America/Russia.

This is great propaganda to further Islamic imperialism and we must be careful!



 (Comment this)

31 - This is crazy talk. (Comment this)

32 - wow, what a real debate there... although it really diverted from the origin... but Andrew Brehm, do you realize how superficial you sound there? i dont read news, and i never watch the media, it is just full of lies that try to form my way of thinking, but there are little facts... facts about palestinian being dragged to hospitals DAILY after being shot for "throwing stones"... i am a simple person, i have very little judgment to make on anything, but i know one thing, for a whole community to stand silent from 1948 till 1988, before storming into grabbing the nearest stone and throw it on a wall of IRON, i think.. humbly... they must have been DESPRATE! i dont care about the rest, i really dont care what the rest of the world says about palestinians, call them terrorists, call them anything, the israeli state really forgot to take into account this human factor when they set out their plan to take over the land...

any other facts? i have very little, but really, besides the suffering of this nation that made their little kids act desprately! (and by the way i have direct relatives leaving palestine and coming to amman to tell me actual stories, i dont beleive CNN)

one more fact from history: jews were always welcome in Arab lands, they are in fact still in some parts, its the christians that killed and kicked out moslems and jews from Spain, in fact, moslems did try to stick out for their jewish neighbors in Germany... so that defeats ur reason: that jewish mush be in palestine because arabs wont allow them to live in arab lands.... what bullshit! i swear, i heard so much bullshit in my life, never this one though, NEVER!

enough lies for one day, gotta stop bumping into political blogs, they are not good for the BRAIN! (Comment this)

33 - one note to ibrahim, so if they were pretending to be civilians they had the right to kill them, should we hand them over to OUR ENEMY? why not stick our necks a bit further, they will chop it for us easily... man, onsor akhaka thaleman AW mathlooman, i say if your brother committed murder, you go in and punish him yourself, u dont ask your neighbor to do it, would u? ibrahim? do u have a brother? would u let your neighbor stab or even slap ur brother infront of u? the right thing to do is punish him urself, and if ur neighbor rushes in to hit ur brother, u should fight with ur brother to keep him out... lenno ma fee 3izzeh lalli ma be3iz!
bottom line: in the fight for ones land, i swear, anything is legal... let them fight, let them be dubbed terrorists, who the hell cares, they are fighting for their freedom

"Those are NOT 'civilians' but rather terrorist colloborators - in fact soldiers! " if u think the 1600 civlians killed in lebanon are sheilds, then man ur an IDIOT! if they are soldiers, then may Allah make more of them! u sucker! they are laughing at u on the other side of the world, complete IDIOT! go, run to them! lets see if they will come thru for u..

"Islamist-leaning newspapers (such as Reuters)", hehe, u make me laugh! if there is anything good they are trying to do for islamist, then they are losing because i cant see the EFFECT of it... while the jews are doing great in this world, wouldnt u agree?
FACTS! (Comment this)